The next project

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The next project

Postby meisen on Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:28 pm

Well, yeah I am not really done with my "new" LPS display. But its getting there, really more just rearranging things and adding a piece here or there now....mostly its about things growing in now and some minor tweaking.

So with that in mind (and because I spotted it on RC), I picked up the raw materials for my next project: a 90 G Oceanic Tech tank and stand. Starfire, Eurobraced, reef ready. I have been drooling over one of these for a while and now that they don't make em anymore they are harder to find. I think its gonna make a sweet SPS system that I can enjoy a bit more than my rubbermaid tub :) . I think it will grow better for me as well. Based on the rate at which my LPS lagoon came together and considering the increased complexity of a SPS system and putting the remaining tasks on the LPS lagoon ahead of work on this system, I should have it done sometime in 2015 :mrgreen:

Anyway, pics will come once I get it out of/off of the car. Next step is to get the tub emptied out.....
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Re: The next project

Postby skanderson on Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:40 pm

it will have to be a race then. i may be able to get my tank running before your 90.
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Re: The next project

Postby meisen on Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:28 am

skanderson wrote:it will have to be a race then. i may be able to get my tank running before your 90.

LOL trying to stoke my competitive side buddy? :mrgreen:
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Re: The next project

Postby meisen on Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:06 pm

Lighting is either going to be 2 X 400 W or 2 X 250 W halides. I am leaning towards doing a 2 X 250 setup so I don't have to worry about chilling it. But since its gonna be another basement setup, it has some temperature headroom so then again....

Here is my prospective equipment list:
Tank: Oceanic Tech 90
Stand: Oceanic Black Oak
Sump: Custom 3 chamber with lighted frag/fuge section
Lighting: Probably 2 X 250 W Radiums driven with electronic ballasts in Lumenarc pendants, some kind of LED Blue supplement likely as well, probably some reef-brite strips if I can get a deal, DIY if not. Considering going with a higher PAR, lower kelvin bulb choice as well, thinking about those Ushio 250s as a posibility and then supplementing lots of blue LED. I am sorta tempted to do all LEDs on this in the form of two Aquaillumination pendants but I still feel like LEDs in general are not quite as reliable and developed as I'd like.
Skimmer: SWC 180 Cone
Return Pump: Iwaki MD 20 or 30 (probably going to just run one of the returns)
Flow: 3-4 Tunze 6100s on the Tunze multicontroller running a daily cycle and random surge-flow pattern.
Heater: Jager 2 X 250
Controller: Reefkeeper Lite (or possibly upgrade to the elite)
Not decided on a Ca Reactor (just passed up a fantastic deal on one last week...might have been a mistake) or using a doser/3-part additive system. Maybe both? Maybe I'll start with the doser since I already have that and add in a Ca reactor if need be?
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Re: The next project

Postby Aimforever on Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:24 am

Congrats Mark! I think you'll love the oceanic setup. I've been using a Tech 120 + stand as my display for the last few years and have been very happy with it. I'm excited to see what you do with it!

If you are buying new lighting, I would nudge you towards the AI :D I have been experimenting with a single Sol Blue pendant and it's been growing SPS really well over my frag tank. My display lighting setup is somewhat similar to one of the other options you're considering (2x 250 pheonix halides + two 48" blue reefbright strips) and looking back I could have bought 2 AI's for pretty close to the same price. Now that I've been able to play around with one for a few months over my frag tank I know I would be much happier with them over the display as well. I just love the ability to get the perfect color by fine tuning the output of the different LEDs, not to mention the other benefits.

If I were you I'd wait for the 10% off memorial day weekend sales and pickup the AI sol blue kit =P~
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Re: The next project

Postby meisen on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:29 am

Aimforever wrote:Congrats Mark! I think you'll love the oceanic setup. I've been using a Tech 120 + stand as my display for the last few years and have been very happy with it. I'm excited to see what you do with it!

If you are buying new lighting, I would nudge you towards the AI :D I have been experimenting with a single Sol Blue pendant and it's been growing SPS really well over my frag tank. My display lighting setup is somewhat similar to one of the other options you're considering (2x 250 pheonix halides + two 48" blue reefbright strips) and looking back I could have bought 2 AI's for pretty close to the same price. Now that I've been able to play around with one for a few months over my frag tank I know I would be much happier with them over the display as well. I just love the ability to get the perfect color by fine tuning the output of the different LEDs, not to mention the other benefits.

If I were you I'd wait for the 10% off memorial day weekend sales and pickup the AI sol blue kit =P~


Thanks!

The lighting thing is worth some further consideration for sure.....probably not ready to do anything as early as Memorial day but really the timeframe on this system is long enough that I could probably catch a labor day deal :mrgreen: .

I have seen some AI PAR readings posted on RC by a friend of mine and they are pretty nuts (like 1500+ at peak and 6"). Certainly seems like plenty to grow just about anything with. We've also had some interesting conversations about the lack of significant UV on the AI units which never got addressed AFAIK. (there are other units that now include UV spectrum bulbs). I definitely have to seem them running long-term over a real tank (not just frag tanks or nanos where the aesthetic and effect is hard to judge) and also see what colonies grown under them look like before I pull the trigger. It also seems like they are suggesting 2 units over a 90 G tank. It's definitely good to hear you are having positive results with yours anyway and it encourages me to do some more research.
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Re: The next project

Postby MM on Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:48 pm

meisen wrote:a 90 G Oceanic Tech tank and stand. Starfire, Eurobraced, reef ready.


Now why would you want that when you already have rubbermaid tubs? :?

- mark
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Re: The next project

Postby meisen on Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:46 pm

MM wrote:
meisen wrote:a 90 G Oceanic Tech tank and stand. Starfire, Eurobraced, reef ready.


Now why would you want that when you already have rubbermaid tubs? :?

- mark

I know, what a downgrade huh? I am giving up some real estate no doubt but I have a somewhat creative aquascaping plan in mind :mrgreen: .
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Re: The next project

Postby meisen on Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:53 pm

Holy cow, who knew how insane folks are getting about LEDs!!!! I did some searching today and wow, its dozens of acrimonious threads and posts, 50+ pages, lots of folks moved on etc. What the heck? Either they work how you want them to or don't. Its not supposed to be that hard.
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Re: The next project

Postby barbianj on Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:58 pm

meisen wrote:Holy cow, who knew how insane folks are getting about LEDs!!!! I did some searching today and wow, its dozens of acrimonious threads and posts, 50+ pages, lots of folks moved on etc. What the heck? Either they work how you want them to or don't. Its not supposed to be that hard.


Mark, by the time you get the Oceanic Tech 90 Slo-Mo build done, LED's will be an even more attractive alternative. :D

I've been trying out a 7 diode Rapid LED PAR38 over my growout tank, and so far I'm really impressed with the growth and color of everything from SPS to chalices.

(The LPS tank is really nice btw)
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Re: The next project

Postby MM on Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:30 pm

i think I will let the technology evolve and prices come down before I try LEDs as a main driver for any of my tanks. The internet loves anything new and LEDs are the newest. Look at how exaggerated the claims were about advantages of T5s over say VHOs when the only advantage I can confirm is the wider bulb selection. I don't like that the LED bulbs on the market dont show a spectum in any of the marketing I have seen. They just show a color temp and lumen out put. I really want to see a spectrum for any lights I use, that is why I was never very impressed with the internet obsession with PAR readings. I want to see the spectrum and what happens to the spectum as the bulb ages - Spectum being the graph of wavelength vs intensity. I know they make things look great but i am not sure that the spectrum is broad enough to mimic natural light.

I would really like to find thin high intensity blue strip LEDs to add to my other lights for a affordable price to make the colors pop a bit more but i would leave my MH and florescent bulbs in place.

- Mark
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Re: The next project

Postby Sula on Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:39 am

I'm looking forward to see how LED's develop as well. So far I am using them for actinics on one tank in place of VHO's and am happy with the look. If anything it's "too blue" with actinics only (my purple tang is almost invisible!). I'd love to see more colors available, which from what I have seen is starting to happen. In the meantime I will live vicariously through you early adopters :D

In the meantime Mark, we all look forward to seeing this tank build.
When on a journey, it is good to have an end, but in the end it's the journey that counts.
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Re: The next project

Postby meisen on Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:46 am

Yeah everything I am seeing touches up those exact sentiments. Things don't look quite right in SPS systems running LEDs long term for the most part. I did see a few exceptions but pretty much when someone says "lets see the pics" the proponents clam up and then change the subject. Plus very few folks post true long-term pics (2 years plus IMO). Of course few of the fixtures have been around that long but still, there should be more people able to post pics. Funny enough I haven't seen the same issues with LPS...quite a few tanks with them for 2+ years that look great.

I think LEDS certainly have the potential to run a fantastic SPS system. Heck PAR values are already there and beyond but I agree, I think some spectral components are missing in most of the fixtures out there. Certainly corals grown under T5s look different than corals grown under halides....is a piece of that the UV (and/or the IR) that MH put off?
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Re: The next project

Postby meisen on Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:53 am

Of course then there is this:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... led&page=8

This guys tank is all LED, SPS, and looks fantastic.......but his fixture is a custom-made in Italy thing that is probably about as easy and cheap to get as spare 70s Ferrari parts. He claimed the difference was in the optics used but I gotta believe its more the emitters used.

I was hoping the other guy (gasman) in that thread would have some 1 year pics but he tore out his sandbed and changed his rock around midstream.
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Re: The next project

Postby meisen on Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:05 am

One thing that does tempt me is that unlike most of these folks, I'd have the opportunity to start LED from the very beginning. Changing the lighting so dramatically in an established tank is clearly going to result in major stress on the Acros and short term I would expect things to look like crap.

And how hard would it be to put a few T5 or VHO Supplements onto the AI frame like gasman did? Could supplement with some 5Ks and procolors or something to work the warmer tones more. But not sure how I'd get any UV in there. I wisely sold my 150 pendants so mixing them with two AIs pendants for a best of both worlds system is off the table #-o . 450 Watts of consumption with the par of 3 X 400 halides :mrgreen:

I dunno, I am still going to do some more research and thinking on it before I plug anything in over the tank permanently :mrgreen: .
Last edited by meisen on Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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