Lighting

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Lighting

Postby MM on Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:45 pm

After looking through all of the best options for LED, Plasma etc. new to market over the last two to three years for a possible tank upgrade it seems clear that once you throw in price, the Metal Halide/VHO combo is still the best value/quality you are going to get. Even the T5s the only advantage is bulb selection. Compared to VHOs adn VHOs/MH they fall short. Plasma, so exciting but damn, 1500$ for each MH replacement? 500$ to do the same with LED and less quality in the spectrum with LED. If I set up any new tanks or convert any they will be MH and VHO, or MH and LED blues strips to show off. Unless you can get a slightly used Plasma from one of the forums and not the brand plasma at that for 1/3 the price or less I am staying off of the ride.

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Re: Lighting

Postby Rueg on Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:25 pm

My favorite lighting I ever had - 2 6500 K 250W MH with 4 VHO actinics.
I have no MH lighting anymore though - too hot and too much electricity.
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Re: Lighting

Postby MM on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:30 pm

Thats alright, electricity is going to get a lot cheaper in the next couple of years and we will laugh our asses that we once voted for a guy that wanted to spend money on solar, wind, and unicorns on tread mills and wanted to make coal and gas expensive. Give it one year and oil will be back on its way to thirty a barrel or less and most solar panels will be in a land fill where they belong. =D> #-o

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Re: Lighting

Postby Socratic Monologue on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:08 pm

MM wrote:Thats alright, electricity is going to get a lot cheaper in the next couple of years and we will laugh our asses that we once voted for a guy that wanted to spend money on solar, wind, and unicorns on tread mills and wanted to make coal and gas expensive. Give it one year and oil will be back on its way to thirty a barrel or less and most solar panels will be in a land fill where they belong. =D> #-o

- Mark


I don't suspect that the primary motivation of anyone who's installed PV panels residentially has been money savings; unless you live in CA or HI, it is not even a break even proposition. I suspect the main motivations are environmentalism and self-sufficiency.

You might like PV, actually -- if you have your own power generating system, you know (aside from unexpected equipment repairs) how much your power is going to cost. Plugged into this coal and gas that's gonna get cheap as soon as we elect the right guy :wink: , you can't really say for sure how much your power is going to cost you next year. I'm actually surprised that more people who claim to be in favor of personal freedom don't generate their own power.
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Re: Lighting

Postby MM on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:01 pm

true, but the environmental angle is a joke also. What I am hinting at is that I expect new technologies to break through the media boycot later this year after the finally get published and patent protection. Stay tuned should be game changing technology to role out over the next few years. Will make our hobby a lot less expensive. - Mark
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Re: Lighting

Postby tickle on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:02 pm

I just wanna toss in here that i built a led setup for less than 150 and i keep sps in a 40. for another 50 bucks i could make it full spectrum. So for 200 thats any k rating i want and wont have to do bulb changes and wont have a heat exchange. I made the switch from mh and i dont think ill go back.

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Re: Lighting

Postby MM on Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:28 pm

How long have you been LED only? Would love to see some pics. - Mark
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Re: Lighting

Postby tickle on Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:36 pm

2 months maybe a little longer. Everything has responded very well.
I have some pics up on my build thread here. I recently did a experiment with them on a 10 gallon and dropped them in the tank ( not part of the experiment ) and burned some of them out so im taking that oppurtunity to mix the chips up a bit. My initial chip cost was right around 10 bucks a chip but after a little digging i found them for around 1-2 bucks per chip.
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Re: Lighting

Postby sslak on Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:32 pm

If you believe in the free market being driven by supply and demand, surely you must understand that they call coal and oil non-renewable resources for a reason.

In a more reef related topic - I really enjoy my MH/T5 combo. I just got some GU10 LED's today and I'm going to add them strictly for color (all blues). I had seen them online before, but after seeing how they looked on beansandmia's tanks I had to try them. For the price, even if it's a huge failure I'm not out much.
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Re: Lighting

Postby MM on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:56 pm

Almost everything you are told about energy will be turned into a punch line soon and everyone will pretend like they were in on the joke from the start. Solar and wind have been dead already for years except where supported by governments/corruption. Other forms of energy will win the day and oil will mostly be a chemical reserve as will coal and they will not be exhausted for centuries. Energy cost will not be the biggest factor. Total cost will win the day as they should. We just need to find a comercially available lighting system that does not apply a one thousand fold markup for the hobby. This is why I have been running comercial lighthing for decades but recently I have suspected quality control on some of my bulbs I used has slipped. Would love to see LED keep getting cheaper, would prefer to see plasma lighting get a lot cheaper. Short term I am switching over to more halide lighting on my larger tanks. LED only on small project tanks as an experiment.

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Re: Lighting

Postby MM on Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:00 pm

I have told many people over the years that it is unlikely that solar and wind will ever really be environmentally friendly or affordable and as more and more money was spent on the technologies it became clearer and clearer that the long shots were not going to break through meanwhile more promising technologies slowly moved forward. It apears one of these technologies is going to break through this year. To avoid the laugh lines these links pretty much nail it. The second one may shock you as too good to be true, and why not reported on? but that should change over the next few months. And low energy costs is on topic here as anyone paying the electric bill knows :) - Mark

http://www.shorenewstoday.com/snt/news/ ... ation.html

http://pesn.com/2012/08/22/9602166_Exis ... Confirmed/
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Re: Lighting

Postby Rueg on Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:16 am

I will believe it when I see it. Chances are big coal and oil will purchase the tech and burry it.
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Re: Lighting

Postby Socratic Monologue on Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:27 am

While the technical details may as well be in Greek for as much sense as I can make of them, that second link is interesting. While I was reading it, though, I got the feeling that if our collective technical knowledge were at the level of our collective political knowledge, we wouldn't even be able to make stone arrowheads; all that scientific knowledge and we can't even fix a road without a bunch of people getting bent out of shape about it. We've figured out how to make power out of chicken feathers but we have no idea how to get along in civil society.

I suspect whether MM's predictions about energy turn out to be true depends much less on technology than on politics -- and not liberal vs. conservative politics. C.K. Chesterton wrote, in 1924, "The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." Whether you like this characterization or not, that was 85 years ago, and it is not clear that things are much different after all that time (actually, there was a wide diversity of political views at least through the 1930s in the US; so however bipolar things were in 1924, they are much worse now).
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Re: Lighting

Postby MM on Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:23 am

That was the best Socratic Monologue I have read in long time. =D>

and yes it is the second link I wanted you all to focus on. I have been watching this technology since the beginning when it was demonized and tossed out of the mainstream. Now Pons and Fleishman will likely get Nobel prizes in physics after their deaths as they were observing fusion. Truth is not a popularity contest.

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Re: Lighting

Postby MM on Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:16 pm

alright I know,I am off topic now but hey wth. http://www.padrak.com/ine/FB97_2.html
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