Frozen food and our local options

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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby cr8signs on Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:46 pm

No i have not, but i just ran out of rods so i will be trying some soon
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby limpit on Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:33 pm

I gave this thread a little time before replying to see if anyone would contact me directly, which as of today has not happened.
Initially reading the first post I did not think it was my product being talked about until I got down to the last part of the post.
"I hope to see Living Art drop limpits like a bad habit and bring back a Quality food that the local reefers would choose to use."
This statement has me wondering what the true intent of the post actually is.

Up until this thread I have never received any negative feedback from anyone stating that it made their skimmer or plumbing foam badly or that my food created an oil slick.
Also, my food breaks apart very easily once it has thawed and I absolutely guarantee that there are no "fillers" in it.

To address why I have garlic extract and omega 3 in the Coral Blend is there are some people out there who use the smaller sized Coral Blend to feed their small fish.
The pro's of having the additives in the Coral Blend to me outweighed the con's as most people with a reef tank have fish in it and not just corals.

Here are a couple of other things to note:
You should never rinse Limpits Reef Buffet. All of my literature states this and retailers are told this when they start carrying the food.
The price increase is a very minimal one at that. So small that some retailers may not even increase their retail price.
I could reduce cost by reducing the quality of the product but personally to me that is not an option.

I am happy to provide fellow hobbyists out there with a quality all in one frozen fish food at a reasonable price and will continue to do so.
Thank you
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby jelly on Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:12 pm

glad you replyed ron.. i have been waiting to see what you had to say. i make my own food following a video you made a few years back but add a few extras..
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby bradnamber on Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:01 am

Thanks everybody for the input and great feedback. In no way was I trying to bash, insult or de-mean the food that you and your company prepares. One of the biggest things in this hobby is personal experience. That is why i feel this is a great conversation to have. The only way we can progress this hobby is through trial and error. Limpits is not the first food to be qustioned. every new product is the most favorite and most used, until there is personal feedback given. Just straight up mysis was the DEAL just a few years ago.

But this is a great opportunity to:
1. Inform your customers
2. Promote your product
3. Progress the hobby into un chartered territory

So, for a few feedback questions;
1. What is the scientific evidence of garlic and immune systems, in marine life, and other life?
2. What are the multi vitamins that are added and in which quantity? So what are the percentages as listed on food grade packages?
3. What are the amino acids added?
4. Would it be possible to list the guaranteed analysis like other foods? Protein, fat, fiber, moisture, etc?
I have been short for time, thus is why I haven't been able to
Reply.
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby bradnamber on Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:53 am

In response to others questions and comments, it seems i have been seeing a few negative responses from my tank as a whole.
The bubbles and additional "foam" it produces in my drain chamber.
The skimmer building skimmate too aggressively and not functioning properly.
What seems to be less aggressive feeding from Corals
I have been doing some digging on some of the things I have been seeing as negative effects of food that is good for fish compared to corals.
http://www.carolinafishtalk.com/forum/general-saltwater-discussion/19468-garlic-coral-food-thoughts.html
Here is a quote taken from here:
http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f6/garlic-supplement-and-corals-109551.html
I use garlicGuard as a supplemetal treatment every 3rd feeding. when I do so I basically hand feed the fish mysis which has soaked in it for about an hour or so, and I do it with tweezers. In my experience things reef members which have a negative effect towards garlic are: 1. anemone (as soon as they come into contact, they retract very quickly and not in a good way) 2. Brain (same deal) 3. hammer corals don't seem to like it. hence... my feeding with tweezers

And here is an incredible article wrote about garlic in food, and covers an incredible large view, and evidence off all aspects.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/sp/index.php
As for feeding corals, and a good break down of products is here:
http://www.exoticpet.com/feedingcorals.htm
And for the only scientific explanation, and an incredibly composed project on coral feeding and how it happens us here;
http://www.personal.psu.edu/sbj4/aquarium/reeffood/feeding.htm
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby shoota on Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:53 am

Great conversation on a great topic. My experiences... I've used both rods and limpits. With rods I didn't have to shut down my skimmer, but with limpits its a totally different story. After more than 10 times of forgetting this and overflowing and throwing a full cup of skimmate back into my tank, I'm pretty good about remembering now. The problem is that I like to feed at night since I believe it reduces waste since most all my corals are in "feeding" mode with polyps extended, which means more in their mouths and less in my water column. Which I believe is also linked to the wonderful growth that I get.

Recently I have been rinsing the limpits which allows me to keep my skimmer on. I guess it's a sense of security. I'm not sure what cause the skimmer to go crazy. I also wonder about the added omega, aminos and garlic and what the scientific benefits are. My philosophy in reefing is to keep it simple. I try not to add stuff to my tank if not needed. I question if it's needed. So IMO rinsing is a better choice than leaving my skimmer off for a night until I wake up next morning (or stay up an extra 3 hours for skimmer to settle down).

It bugs me that I don't know how much of these ingredients are in each flat. Maybe if i knew i wouldn't be as concerned. Do I have 3 drops of garlic or 30 drops of garlic? Was there any research as to how much of this stuff is beneficial before you cross the line into being useless and just fouling my tank??? Same goes with omega 3 which I believe is what Selcon is. I don't know how much is in there. This is even more a problem when you are selling flats vs. blister packs since there is no way to measure quantity. One guy may feed more than the next which means more garlic amino and omegas. I bought selcon and garlic and loved soaking my own food. I could control how much is added for my exact application. I can feed more food but still keep garlic amino and omega lower. I believe these ingredients are beneficial, vut to a point.

Im curious if anyone else rinse their limpits? If not, do you have to shut your skimmer down or does limpits not affect it? What kind of skimmer? Nobody commented on this so I'm starting to believe my SWC skimmer must be a beast if nobody else has an issue lol

I also use nutramar ova food which I have no problems with. Ive used ocean nutrition prime reef food in the past also with no problems. I can't remember using any food in past that made my skimmer go nuts.

I will end by saying that I love limpits other than the skimmer issues. I love the texture (stringy) waaaaaay more than rods. Food seems to stock better to corals which means less waste. I think this is a great topic. If I had the option to buy limpits blend without this stuff, then I wild be in heaven! Thank you ron for your time and dedication to the hobby. I'd love to hear your insight on why add what you do and in what amounts. Let's make a great product even better :)
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby RDtrack on Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:34 am

First great discussion.

I am by no means and expert when it comes to feeding however from my personal experience I see my fish and corals responding better when I combine foods, such as what Cliff (MadCityReefer) is doing, and also adding supplements.

My personal combination is is normally PE Mysis Shrimp with Limpits or Hikari sprirulina, along with one of the following Rods Food, Nutramar Ova or Cycloypeez. I then add Selcon and Boyd's Vitachem. I'll feed this combo for about ~4-5 days and then mix up a new batch. About every 3-4 batchs I'll add a little garlic. I've heard/read that garlic when used to often can lead to liver problems with fish, which is why I don't use it every time.

I like using PE Mysis as a base food with Limpits or the sprirulina adding nutritional value. The other foods feed my smaller fish along with the corals. I feel that limpits (orginal) is a little more chucky than Rods and thus my larger fish eat it better. Also I like limpits because it is a combo of everything.

I've gotten several fish over dieases using this method and the color on all the fish have dramtically increased along with seeing great coral color and expansion, which I think is a result of feeding different foods and adding the supplements.

I've heard Kevin from Divers Den talk about the importance of adding supplements to food along with adding variety. Also I was recently at the Old Town Aquarium Shop in Chicago and they use this same formula for their fish (Black Tank, Conspicuous Angel , Candy Basslets, etc.)

Just my experiences.
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby Conrad25 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:41 am

I have used Limpits for a few years now. I have never experienced the issues you state with my skimmer. My skimmer pulls black coffee out all day long. I have seen great growth from corals and fish and wouldn't change a thing. I have used Rods and everything else in the past and it seems this has been the best by far for feeding responses and colorations
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby johntroxel71 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:45 am

I love Limpits. When I started using not only did my fish love it, but I noticed more growth in my corals. I do not use a skimmer though, I just run an algae scrubber.

I also mix in NLS pellets, Spirulina, and a bit of flake for a change of pace, but never go 2 days in a row without feeding it. I actually have 1 fish that will only eat limpits. Darn picky Royal Gramma.
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby Lonelyreef on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:28 pm

I am very happy with limpits. Having said that I have a hard time understanding how a local business person could say he thinks a store should stop carrying a local product so many appreciate and use without first contacting the owner and trying to work something out or get more info.

For instance if someone did this to your business what kind of negative effects could it have on you and how would you view that kind of an attack on something you care so deeply about. I realize this is a forum where we are free to express opinions and beliefs, however an opinion and open discussion is one thing , saying it shouldn't be sold and you hope it isn't is another. Would hate for someone you did a job for to hit the web and bad mouth your skills as a builder due to misinformation or them not speaking to you first and trying to correct the problem.

Thankfully the majority of reefers are smart and curtious people and realize how lucky we are to have limpit in our area and his food available to us. I understand both sides and the original posters opinions but I think he went a little to far. I'm glad everyone else showed such great support for limpit because I think he deserves it but I felt someone had to say some of those comments weren't necessary.
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby shoota on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:06 am

Well this thread got derailed quickly :D I threw my 2 cents in and was excited for constructive discussion and debate and feedback to help understand why this may be happening and suggestions on how to make a good food even better. Nobody else has this problem? Do you have a skimmer? What kind? I have 60g tank with 20g sump and SWC 120. Ron, if you say I shouldn't rinse this, then please explain why. Just saying that you should not rinse it doesnt help me. Especially when an unbiased 3rd party (living art) is telling me to rinse it. It would be different if he didn't sell it, but he does, and still recommends rinsing it.
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby limpit on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:58 am

I contacted Paul at Living Art and asked him if he has received any complaints about the food and I quote from Pauls reply:
"I have not heard any complaints from customers."

I also asked him if they were telling customers to rinse my food and his reply was:
"We do recommend rinsing a lot of our frozen foods, but Limpets in not one of them."

So I do not know who at the store is telling you to rinse it and why but my recommendation is to not rinse it.
The reason I do not recommend rinsing Limpits Reef Buffet is unless you are using a very fine mesh netting such as a brine net you are going to be rinsing away some of the small food items contained in it down the drain.
When I prepare each batch of food all of the items with the exception of the brine eggs, cyclops, seaweed, phyto and G.P. go through a multi staged rinsing process using RO/DI water so there is no rinsing necessary.

I would be interested to know why some people are having skimmer issues and some are not.
I can say from my experience that I have never had any skimmer overflow on any of my systems over the years after feeding my food.

If rinsing the food is helping certain peoples skimmers from going bonkers then you know what, go ahead and rinse it.
There are many things in this hobby that work for some but not others and vice verse.
In the long run its all about having a happy and healthy tank.
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby bradnamber on Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:34 am

Thanks Ron for the feedback.
Hope that some of my other constructive questions get some answers as well........

Just to clear the air, I had previously mailed Ron apologizing saying I went a little overboard when I said Paul shouldn't carry the product Line. The only reason I said that was to spark an aggressive conversation. I also said that it is unfair for me to edit my previous post, as then comments linked to that would be hard to tell what i had originally said. In a business there is always negative feedback, it's all in how you change performance in the future, change product avavilability and product choices. It also could be a disconnect in knowledge about such product. Now, I also said in previous posts that his food is wonderful for feeding fish, but for my situation acquires excess bubbles or foaming. I also have a lot more money in coral than in fish, so I am way way less concerned with the fish.
I rinse the food in a very fine micron net to preserve as much as possible, and for some reason when rinsed it doesn't make excess foam and my skimmer functions perfectly. I also have a very naturalistic filtration setup, that breeds my own Mysis shrimp naturally, and constantly. Along with that my corals also naturally spawning by sexual reproduction.
Lots of things play into this conversation on HOW food effects your tank. Like shoots said, how many of you have a SWC cone skimmer? How many people dropped the bucks on a over performing skimmer? How often you feed, what type of filtration...etc...
I feel that I should take a moment to apologize if I rubbed anybody the wrong way by my comments And questions. Whenever anything is questioned, there Are strong viewpoints from eAch side. This is how progression happens. Just look at where the hobby was just 5 years ago.

In direct response to lonely reef, the customer is always right. Though our customer base is completly different whereas i sell you, the individual a product face to face and inform you about the product, andthe wide variety of other products we offer. in the remodeling industry, When that pella window didn't perform for you, yet it performs in every other circumstance, there is a problem. Wether it be in that one product piece, design of the product that just showed in this circumstance, or incorrect utilization of that product. Usually two things happen at that point, the consumer contacts me to rectify the problem, or does some research and gets feedback from other customers before contacting the installer/manufacturer to have a reason for defect. The consumer doesn't call me up and say " it just doesn't work". They say "it doesn't work because ....and have points and references to refer to. The second this that happens is they assess and troubleshoot. Maybe that window isn't performing because your shutting the window in the locked position.

I do not, and did not want this to turn into a pointing fingers discussion, but a constructive one to progress our hobby. I apologize for any hard feelings, or the way I came across.
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby shoota on Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:04 am

I bought a brine net specifically for rinsing this food lol that's how much it was aggravating me. It was the best $2 spent. Cheaper than a botte of aspirin! :D It works good, but Ron brings up a good point. How much of my money is going down the drain? I've conceded that the dollars going down the drain is better than the oil slick in my tank.

Ron can you answer the big question.. Do you know how much of the omega and garlic goes in to each flat? The point I'm trying to make is that I don't think anybody knows. Which is scary because these ingredients (like selcon and garlic), although may be beneficial (no scientific evidence but for this sake we will say that it is beneficial), also has the best tendency to foul your tank and raise parameters to unsafe levels because it is so easy to use in excess. I think phyto can be thrown in the same category. As it stands, I have no clue how much I'm putting in my tank. That's the point I'm trying to make. Both garlic extract and selcon have instructions for a reason. The amount of these ingredients is even more uncontrollable in a flat of food vs. blister pack. With a blister pack I feed almost exact amount each time. Which is nearly impossible to do with a flat of food without breaking a scale out :D

The more I think, maybe I feed more than others. If I put a dime size chunk of food in there, it doesn't affect my skimmer. But when I do my heavy coral feedings, the slick is so bad I have to shut my skimmer down. I'm same as bradnamber, I have more money in corals than fish. Maybe it's not my skimmer but maybe I'm feeding more than others. When I spot feed my corals its a pretty heavy feeding that I do twice a week. Its not uncommon for me to use a half a dollar bill size chunk of food. Ron, I realize you cannot make a specific blend for every system and particular use, and that's why Im adamant to try to find out as much as I can with what the food has so I can adjust my application if I can.
Last edited by shoota on Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Frozen food and our local options

Postby barbianj on Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:51 am

A helpful topic that could have started off in a less dramatic fashion, maybe?

You can also voice your opinion here:

http://www.wireefsociety.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=13488
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