Sick fish help

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Sick fish help

Postby mfd78 on Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:58 pm

I got this guy about 5 days ago and he hasn't eaten yet although the other clown purchased at the same time is fine with flake and frozen brine. Yesterday, he developed this white patch by the mouth. I would appreciate any help ID'ing this. I do not have a hospital tank - just the 75 gal. he's in now. My tank (and experience level) is only about 6 weeks old and I only get 10ppm nitrates for readings. Am I leaving anything important out? I posted this on reef central but trust the "local" help more! Thanks for checking...
Steve
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Postby moujon on Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:08 pm

I don't know for sure- but that looks similar to the same kind of injury my cichlids get when the are fighting with "lip-to-lip combat". Were they housed together before?
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Postby spbreeder on Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:10 pm

Hi Steve.

Does the white patch look more like cauliflower or like a cotton ball? If it looks like a cottonball it is probably a fungus. This is what the About people say about fungal infections
"Most fungal infections are fairly easy to treat. You can just add a saltwater fish fungicide (which you can find at your LFS) to the tank water and hope for the best, but a more thorough procedure will greatly improve the odds of a cure as well as prevent another outbreak.
Remove the fish to a QT. Perform a thorough tank cleaning, including vacuuming the substrate and water change. Add a dose of fungicide from your LFS. Remove the infected fish from the QT and place it on a soft towel soaked in saltwater. Cover the fish's eyes with a corner of the towel to reduce struggling. With a dry paper towel, carefully scrape the fungus from the fish. Wet a cotton swab with tincture of iodine and daub the infected area until covered. Let the solution sink in for a few seconds then return the fish to the tank."

If it looks like cauliflower it is probably lymphocystis. If it is this, there is not much you can do. Some people pick it off and some choose to leave it. I had a butterfly with it and left it alone and eventually it fell off and it was fine.

I would suggest a qt tank but that is another discussion.

Have a great weekend and I hope you get that little guy eating. Clowns are so neat, i love their personalities. Denise
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Postby mfd78 on Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:34 pm

See what I mean about local help? 2 good replies already vs. 1 bad one on RC! :)

The clowns were together at the LFS for about 2 weeks. The sick one has always been a little "off". He swam in fast circles in the bag while acclimating him to my tank and has never shown any interest in food. Just swimming fast from one end of the tank to the other during feedings.

As far as the growth, its hard to say which one it looks like. A little of both??? Is there any downsides to adding a fungicide to the tank - I know what happens with an antibiotic - you start over. I don't know how much longer he'll last without eating - 5 days seems like a lot already!

Thanks for the advice!
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Postby moujon on Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:40 pm

Actually- the garlic response is one I've heard does work well for some things. Garlic actually is a natural healer in most species.
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Postby mfd78 on Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:06 pm

Yes, but the problem is getting the garlic IN the fish...
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Postby moujon on Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:04 pm

I suppose dipping it in garlic oil won't work? JK. :)

Do you have access to med supplies? A small 1ml TB syringe should do the trick. I would think you could get a small amount into it. If nothing else, stop at a local pharmacy and get a child's dosing syringe. I can't imagine it would take much.
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Postby spbreeder on Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:28 pm

If you soak the food in garlic drops it may intice (sp) them to eat. I know my osc. clowns were a little leary of eating the frozen foods I was feeding at first but i added garlic drops (made by kent I think) to some flakes and they came running, now anything is fine. Try target feeding with a turkey baster. Denise
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Postby mfd78 on Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:53 pm

I'll give it a try and let you know how it goes. I'm afraid things don't look too good right now though. Thanks for the advice...
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Postby tapper of spines on Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:18 pm

Hey there Steve,

Where did you post on RC? If it was in the Disease forum then you will usually get a good response, at least in my experience. There are several people there who REALLY know what they are talking about (SAT, oama, StevenPro, for example), the rest take with a pinch of Instant Ocean.

The clown has two diseases, but let's deal with the first one first. I agree with Denise, my first reaction is that it is a fungal infection. I've never had to treat a fungal infection before, but About's description of the treatment seems reasonable. I don't know much about lymphocystis, so I can't comment on that. I would be very leary of adding a fungicide to a display tank, at least if it has live rock in it, or any invertebrates. In fact anything that has 'cide' at the end of its name should be left out of a reef tank, IMHO.

The fish is already already stressed, I wouldn't stress the fish out more by trying to inject garlic oil into its mouth. Getting the clown to eat may be a bit of a problem anyway, as the clown also has an internal parasite infection. You can tell this by the long stringy poo. Treat this with an antiparasitic medicine. Pipzine or Hex-a-mit are great if you can find them, but I don't think they're being made anymore.

What's the plan Steve? It's time to diagnose and act. Do you have a QT? How quickly can you set one up? I just brought mine back online today, as I'm hoping to be getting a shipment in next week that should be quarantined. If you're in a pinch we can host your clown while it's being treated, assuming that our QT is still cycled. The QT has been turned off, but wet, for the past month. Whether or not it's still cycled is not at all clear.

HTH
TOS
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Postby spbreeder on Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:50 pm

For my qt I use a rubbermaid tub and I keep some filter media in some part of my st. I use a heater, hang on filter with the media in it, power head for airation, and some pieces of pvc. I fill it with water from my st, bam instantly ready to go.
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Postby tapper of spines on Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:56 am

spbreeder wrote:For my qt I use a rubbermaid tub and I keep some filter media in some part of my st. I use a heater, hang on filter with the media in it, power head for airation, and some pieces of pvc. I fill it with water from my st, bam instantly ready to go.


A good example of a QT. I especially commend the foresight of keeping some filter media in the tank just in case you suddenly need it (which reminds me...). The only problem I can see with it is you can't see the fish as well as you might, since you can only see the fish well from the top. In Steve's situation, since he really needs to see the fish's chin, I would probably run over to a LFS and buy a 10 gallon. Nonetheless, a good example of what can be done.

What do you think Steve?

TOS
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Postby mfd78 on Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:04 pm

Hmmm. I don't have many options right now sadly. I'm at work until 7am tomorrow (Easter) and guessing the LFS's are closed tomorrow so getting the meds might be a problem. I can make a qt tank out of rubbermaid or something until I get a tank. I've got the extra heater/airstone, no filter though. Guess I better see what I can do because he's going to be a ex-fish shortly.

I appreciate everybody taking the time to answer. Based on your replies, I can see why it looks like 2 problems now which is why I couldn't figure out where to start. I believe the parasitic infection is the main focus now or can you treat both at the same time?

As far as using your qt tank, that's a nice offer. Let me know if it's ok to host my clown...I'd hate to impose if you have fish coming but it's hard to turn down too! Plus, its an opportunity to see another established tank!!! But, no worrys if it doesn't work out. Thanks for the offer!
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Postby mfd78 on Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:13 pm

UPDATE - I got an unscheduled trip in to Petworld and got the stuff I need...I think. A nice guy there - fish friendly - got me some metronidazole which is in one of the meds you told me about and I picked up a filter. I'll transfer the fish tomorrow am to the rubbermaid and then to a small aquarium on Monday possibly. Hopefully after a day or two he'll feel like eating.

I'll keep everybody updated so stay tuned to this thread or CNN for updates! Thanks again for all the input!!!

Steve
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Postby tapper of spines on Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:21 pm

Ah! You beat me to it! I was just sending you a PM. Good luck! And let us know if there is anything else we can do.

TOS
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