Sick fish help

Madison Area Reef Society - Club and reef discussion

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Postby spbreeder on Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:55 am

How is she/he?
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Postby mfd78 on Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:37 pm

Hi Denise!

Well, he (I'm assuming it's a "he" - my wife named him George Clooney!) was still alive when I made it home from work this morning. I set up the qt "tank" and got him in with the meds around 7:30 - it's 2pm now and he seems OK - calm. I'd like to see him eat though.

Some confusion as to the actual treatment plan however. The guy from Pet World said 1/4 tsp. per 20 gallons for 10 days with a 25% water change daily. Reading up on the internet about the drug, metronidazole, people are treating their fish for short term (30 minute dips) all the way up to several day treatments. Also, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to add more metronidazole with the water changes or not. I'm guessing I am.

My plan as of now is to leave him in for a week unless he seems in distress. I'm planning on offering him live brine shrimp starting tomorrow. I may add an anti-fungal med at day 2-3 if I don't see improvement in the white spot on his chin. Anybody have any thoughts on any of this?

Steve
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Postby tapper of spines on Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:58 pm

mfd78 wrote:Hi Denise!


I'm here too. :D

Some confusion as to the actual treatment plan however. The guy from Pet World said 1/4 tsp. per 20 gallons for 10 days with a 25% water change daily. Reading up on the internet about the drug, metronidazole, people are treating their fish for short term (30 minute dips) all the way up to several day treatments. Also, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to add more metronidazole with the water changes or not. I'm guessing I am.


I'm not familiar with this drug. However, based on my experience with other drugs treating this type of problem, the dosing is usually longer term, not dips. Several day treatments are what I have done in the past for internal parasite infections, usually extending up to two weeks depending on how the fish responds. Better to overtreat than to have it come back again. And yes, after a water change you should add more of the drug.

My plan as of now is to leave him in for a week unless he seems in distress. I'm planning on offering him live brine shrimp starting tomorrow. I may add an anti-fungal med at day 2-3 if I don't see improvement in the white spot on his chin. Anybody have any thoughts on any of this?


I would plan on leaving him in for longer than a week, if for no other reason that to give him some recuperation time. I would also start treating for the fungus right away, unless you have reason to believe that mixing the medications would be a problem. I once had a fish that had a similar infection, though I think his was bacterial, and it was on his lip. I didn't treat for it right away, and part of his mouth was eaten away before it was finally cured. I should have started the treatment for the lip sooner, instead of waiting and hoping it would go away on its own. The fish's immune system is already fighting another infrection; I wouldn't expect it to fight off the fungus on its own.

Do regular water changes, and keep an eye on that ammonia. Good luck and keep us posted!

TOS
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Postby mfd78 on Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:17 pm

Well, hello to you too TOS! :D Sorry, I didn't mean to leave you out...

Actually, I think you might know about this drug since you recommended Hex-a-mit yesterday. I found this quote on the web:
"Metronidazole is the preferred medication. It is the same medication found in Hexamit
We are all learning something here!!!

Your logic sounds good - I'll start the additional treatment tomorrow and plan on having George in isolation for maybe 10 days with a re-evaluation at that time.

Stay tuned...
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Postby tapper of spines on Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:58 pm

Cool. Good to know. Pipzine was an OK medicine for this job, but Hex-a-mit was much better. Good luck!

TOS
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Postby spbreeder on Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:18 pm

We're pulling for you, I mean him :lol: .
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Postby mfd78 on Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:44 pm

Thanks! I can FEEL the love! :lol:

George Clooney Update: He ate some food tonight - both frozen brine and a little flake which surprised me since this is the first time I've EVER seen him eat since I got him 6.5 days ago. Now, if I can just keep the qt tank going... :)
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Postby spbreeder on Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:49 am

Excellent. That's good sign. I find that the seachem ammonia alert badge helps, they seem to be pretty accurate.
Denise
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Postby tapper of spines on Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:43 pm

How's he looking? And how's the fungus look?

TOS
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Postby mfd78 on Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:42 pm

Yeah, I was wondering about that pesky ammonia. I'm assuming if it shows up, just start changing some water? I'm doing a daily water change and I'm concerned about messing up the med to water ratio but I don't want an ammonia spike either.

George C. seems comfy in the qt. Just kinda pokes around. I tossed a couple flakes in this morning and he ignored them but he may have nibbled later. Pretty much the same with brine tonight. I added some Maracyn-Two today - the spot is hard to see from overhead (rubbermaid qt still) but to me it seemed reddish now. Don't know if that's good or not. I'll look closer tomorrow and let you guys know.
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Postby spbreeder on Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:03 pm

I forgot to mention, one thing that helps me keep the ammonia under control is to use a turkey baster to suck out poop and uneaten food. It also comes in handy for blowing crud off lr and target feeding fish/corals etc.

Denise
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Postby friogatto on Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:00 am

A word of caution for those who may read this.
You mentioned pet world and I am not sure if you purchased the fish from there. but...
I have had very bad luck with fish from pet world. The tanks are not maintained and you can usually count several dead in the displays.
They do have good prices on hardware you cant go wrong with that, but I would never buy another fish from them again.
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Postby mfd78 on Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:21 am

Well that's interesting! I bought 6 chromis from there as my first fish and brought them home. One of them didn't even survive the acclimation process and died in the bag. Maybe that's why they have the signs in the store that say "No guaranty on ANY marine fish" :roll: That sounds like a good idea for a new thread...

On a happier note - I believe this thread is now the number 1 thread (in terms of replies) on the entire site!!! Congrats everyone!!! :lol:
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Postby tapper of spines on Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:47 am

mfd78 wrote:Yeah, I was wondering about that pesky ammonia. I'm assuming if it shows up, just start changing some water? I'm doing a daily water change and I'm concerned about messing up the med to water ratio but I don't want an ammonia spike either.


I once killed the biological filtration in my QT by adding some antibiotics that, well, worked. :roll:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... did=528953

There are two courses of action: 1) do large water changes and hope that the tank catches up or 2) add an ammonia detox solution.

In my situation I did option 1). I had never heard of option 2), but as you can read, it was suggested in the thread. I have no idea of the effectiveness of these products, but it might not be a bad idea to have some on hand, just in case. I really can't say though, one way or another.

As Denise mentioned, be sure to either siphon or turkey baster out any poop and uneaten food on a daily basis. This should help keep the ammonia from getting out of control. Keep us updated.

TOS

PS. The end of the story is that the fish recovered and graduated to the display tank. They've been there for almost a month.
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Postby mfd78 on Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:00 am

Thanks for sharing TOS about the ammonia absorb - sounds like a good product to have on hand in case of emergencies...

George Clooney update for 3/29 - 9:37am...Water changed and "basted" clean - ammonia check is good!

I netted the fish to look at the white spot closer and it's not white anymore. Kinda clear with red streaks so I'm assuming it's healing. It grew bigger after the photo I posted a few days ago. I hope it doesn't leave a scar - he's got his career to think about!

Steve
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