Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

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Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby Rueg on Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:46 am

I read this article and it made me wonder:

Beloit Uses New Mixture To Keep Ice Off Roads
City Saves Money By Using Less Salt
http://www.channel3000.com/news/14785416/detail.html

'The new system uses a solution of 10 percent road salt and 90 percent water.'

Anybody using water from their water changes on their driveways to melt snow and ice? Any idea what the percentage of salt is in saltwater? I have thought about trying this for several years. Just haven't gotten around to doing it.
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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby bobbet43 on Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:47 am

i don't know if it is the same solution but there is a liquid that is being used for that purpose but it does create ice before it starts to work. i haven't used it on the driveway for ice but i have used it on weeds in the sidewalk, works ok
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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby weaselander on Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:03 am

If you check out Table 1 at

http://seagrant.oregonstate.edu/sgpubs/ ... h99002.pdf

you will see that sea water freezes at 28.2 F. So most days, dumping your old tank water onto your driveway will just make more ice.
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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby Rueg on Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:02 pm

Interesting link. Thanks. I figured the amount of salt in our aquariums was much lower than 10%, and now the chart confirms that. I may still give it a try, but on the back concrete patio first.
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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby O&J'sdad on Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:07 pm

Make an even coat and if it doesn't work you can always go iceskating.
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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby meisen on Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:13 pm

I use MgCl or CaCl.....

JK of course, its too hard to get to use it on the driveway. :D
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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby meisen on Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:25 pm

I think also the difference is that salt dissolution is pretty highly exothermic. Not only does it lower the freezing point of water but it heats the surrounding area as it dissolves. You wont get that benefit from using salt water since its already released that heat when you made it in the first place.

I think MgCl2 and CaCl2 are even more energetic but a chemistry person could probably confirm if thats just my perception or whats really happening.
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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby BraenDead on Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:30 pm

Mark,

I don't beleive that sodium chloride dissolution is exothermic at all. The mixture of water and salt forms an eutectic mixture that lowers the freezing point of water. The dissolution of calcium chloride is exothermic however. I don't beleive that MgCL2 + H2O is exothermic either although both CaCL2 and MgCL2 and hygroscopic, meaning they absorb moisture.

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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby meisen on Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:02 pm

I think I remember taking some dry aquarium salt in my hand and feeling it get pretty warm when it dissolves....but from what you are saying it must be the CaCl that is present in there thats doing the warming. I guess I always assumed it was the other salts too.....wrongly apparently.

Whats eutectic mean btw?
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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby BraenDead on Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:29 pm

Mark, I think it is CaCL and possibly other components of artifical salt that causes the heating to occur. Some salts experience it much more than others (TMPR warms more than anyother I've felt).

Probably easier and more accurate to let Wiki describe eutectic:

Sodium chloride and water form a eutectic mixture. It has a eutectic point of −21.2 C[1] and 23.3%[2] salt by weight. The eutectic nature of salt and water is exploited when salt is spread on roads to aid snow removal, or mixed with ice to produce low temperatures (for example, in traditional ice cream making).


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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby weaselander on Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:13 pm

In this case, it is a eutectic point because it is the lowest freezing point of the mixture. The phase diagram of mixtures commonly have all sorts of behaviors that they like to give names too. Being a chemical engineer I should really be able to explain the differences between all of the salts... maybe if I have a slow week :)
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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby CUNAReefer on Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:51 am

Can anyone recommend something I could put on my front lawn to clear an area for my spoiled dog. Would the prestone driveway heat kill the grass if I dump some on the snow?
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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby bobbet43 on Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:38 am

i wouldn't use prestone, we just clear an area with the snowblower, or should i say i do
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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby CUNAReefer on Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:51 am

Yeah, I tried that. Its a solid sheet of ice and a real pain to get through. There must be an easier way [-o<
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Re: Anybody using saltwater on their driveway?

Postby Rueg on Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:09 pm

I use the snowblower to create a path for our dog, but I started right after the first heavy snow before it had a chance to freeze and turn to ice. Getting through it now would be almost impossible. I cleaned off the back patio yesterday. I took the ice chopper to chop the ice/snow into chunks and then used a scoop shoverl to clear it out. Heavy stuff. I tried snowblowing where the ice stuff is/was and ended up just blowing the snow off of the top of ice layer.
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