Coral growth rate on Great Barrier Reef plummets

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Coral growth rate on Great Barrier Reef plummets

Postby nasanek on Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:23 am

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Re: Coral growth rate on Great Barrier Reef plummets

Postby Socratic Monologue on Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:32 pm

It is findings like this that make me upset at a certain sort of 'sustainability' that is being mongered by some respected folks in the hobby/industry. There is this idea that nearly any practice that doesn't involve the harvest of wild animals -- like captive fragging and breeding, and South Pacific based mariculture -- is 'sustainable' and thereby legitimates the hobby from an environmental point of view.

But the fact is, the main worry for marine life generally is excess CO2 production, which is a pretty notable feature of energy-intensive luxury activities such as reefkeeping (and especially of flying this stuff halfway around the world). I'm not saying that captive breeding isn't laudable, but I get upset when otherwise intelligent sounding people claim that captive propagation is tantamount to the sustainability of the hobby/industry.
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Re: Coral growth rate on Great Barrier Reef plummets

Postby MM on Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:51 pm

This is not something I would be concerned with. All environmental systems have natural fluctuations and long term trends. We have a mentality now to find extremes which are with out any doubt part of the natural world and attribute them to man. It is very illogical to find fluctuations that we know occur and jump straight to the idea that they are man made. This is usuallly promoted by people that want to find ways to profit from fake conservatkon. They hunt for this kind of shit to sensationalize and use for extreme policy that they somehow manage to profit from at the expense of honest people everywhere. Real consevation, long term, always benefits economies. Modern countries are significantly cleaner than they have been in the las 159 years. The only real threat to conservation are land use, poverty and the kind of corruption that is best demonstrated by the current man made warming politics.

- mark
Last edited by MM on Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coral growth rate on Great Barrier Reef plummets

Postby MM on Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:09 pm

The team found that rates of reef calcification were 40 percent lower in 2008 and 2009 than they were during the same season in 1975 and 1976.

However, the team was not able to demonstrate a change in the amount of live coral covering the reef structure over the three decade period.


Be very skeptical of sweeping conclusions like those at the end of this article. Unless you see raw data that supports it. For example:

Previous work by the group projected that all of the reefs in the world may be dissolving in a few decades if current carbon dioxide emission trends continue.

"Coral reefs are getting hammered," said Caldeira. "Ocean acidification, global warming, coastal pollution, and overfishing are all damaging coral reefs. Coral reefs have been around for millions of years, but are likely to become a thing of the past unless we start running our economy as if the sea and sky matters to us very soon."


This is not science. It is activism. CO2 is increasing. That is raw data and undeniable. It will never in our life times reach levels seen millions of years ago so worst case scenerio the life on the reef will have to adapt to conditios it has seen before. Reason for concern sure but slow roll on the chicken little shit. The last ice age was less than 20 k years ago and during that period about 95% of todays coral did not exist. Think about that.
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Re: Coral growth rate on Great Barrier Reef plummets

Postby MM on Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:12 pm

and by 95% i mean 95% of the species diversity we have today not the volume.
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Re: Coral growth rate on Great Barrier Reef plummets

Postby Socratic Monologue on Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:00 am

MM wrote: Modern countries are significantly cleaner than they have been in the last 159 years. .

- mark


Yeah, in 1850 there were bison chips, Carolina parakeet feathers and passenger pigeon crap everywhere around here. Glad they cleaned that up! :shock:

Mark, I think that lots of people would agree with a lot of what you said, under the parameters of the 'long term' view that you seem to adhere to. I think it is the more near-term (next 100 years) consequences that people tend to think are unacceptable. But everything that is bad in the short term will be erased in the long (enough) term, so "well, it won't matter long term" possibly isn't even an informative claim to make about anything.

FWIW, I think you are right on the money on your claims that some people take science and use it as activism, and that this sort of thing gets sensationalized (but really, what doesn't get sensationalized by the 'news' media?), and that some folks are profiting off all this (but again, what isn't? Medicine? Food production? Housing shortages in the ND oil fields? Doctors, farmers and contractors aren't fundamentally thieves, I don't think). But everything you've said is compatible with the moral claim "we ought to stop wrecking the reefs in these sorts of ways."
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Re: Coral growth rate on Great Barrier Reef plummets

Postby MM on Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:41 pm

Except that it is not hurting our reefs.

Two decade ago it was sea of thorns that was going to destroy the reefs from the same people. Then it was bleaching until we found out that was natural and nothing new. This will likely be just like that last fifteen things that were destroying the reefs all of which are not longer a concern.


And don't mock the idea that the earth is cleaner today than it was 150 years ago because the US and most of the world absolutely is. Our only serious problem today with conservation is land use and no one wants to take that problem on.

global warming has so far been a flop. It has not occurred. Every prediction has failed and the pH of the ocean has not changed.

so have it the bullshit because in the end like every other end of the world scenerio it will be a punch line.

- Mark
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